Ye Olde Political Thread

[DennyCrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VincentVega

I love this sh!t. Inspite of being a horrible movie, The Day After Tomorrow opens with an interesting, simple, and tangible point. A period of global warming will end with an ice-age. Let's think inductively. We know there have been Ice Ages in the past. And those just don't happen on their own. They have to be precipitated by something. For instance, a natural cycle of global warming.

well, I guess we were idiots for blowing so many greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere 15,000 years ago.

stupid Chryslers!

I'm motivated to suggest people understand the planet's lifecycle about as well as we understand our own. And if you aren't with me on this, I point to modern medicine. it has all the cability of seeing problems, but with barely a notion of the underlying causes or of how to treat any "perceived" problems.

Sound familiar?

moral of story: STFU, WitchDoctor Gore

If you can put aside all the leftist scare tactic global warming dogma, I liked that movie. The problem comes when the dems in Washington pointed to it as proof of their argument about the environment. It was about as accurate as An Inconvenient truth. There's an important point to look at in both films, and a lot of the crap you see in the media. The imagry of great American cities suddenly flooded, frozen over, whatever... with people trapped atop skyscrapers. As if we'll wake up one day, open the curtains and just say "oh no...."
The good news is, I believe America is finally starting to see these scare tactics for what they are. Schemes to gain political power and make oodles of cash on peoples fear.

[CoffeeShark]

You have two sides in the business world - those who can see all the money to be made, and those who see this "cap and trade" BS for what it is.

Clinton has already come out talking about how companies should be factoring in their "carbon deficit" to their stockholders, and how you shouldn't invest without knowing a company's "green" statement.

You know, that fake thing that won't exist until she's in office, and will benefit the GodLordAlGore's investment companies?

Just follow the money, lil' rabbit.

[DennyCrane]

To me they're all transparent. The only question I have IS the relationship between Hilldog and Algore. I honestly don't know if they're secret allies or hate each other, or just are on different paths to the power they crave.

[VincentVega]

omg, that's the most awful political monster machine I've ever heard of

[Lunariss]

I don't doubt for a second that the Earth has a natural cycle of warming and cooling. It has done it for millions of years, and will continue to do so. However, were modern elements of today (such as cars)around back when the last ice age happened approximately 10,000 years ago? Obviously not. Nature has its cycle, but what happens when we mess with it? If we speed up or slow down the process, what happens? The flaw with the "it is part of Earth's cycle" argument is that the ice samples from past ice ages don't include factors that are part of today's world. Neither side can really claim to know what's best for the issue. I, however, am trying to do my part in reducing my carbon emissions. Reducing the impact humans have could give scientists more time to discover the real effects we have on the planet. I guess only time will tell, though.

[DennyCrane]

You do realize the largest source of carbon emissions are every man and animal exhaling pure CO2? This dwarfs any industrial or combustion engine output. A single volcanic eruption puts out more carbon than a years worth of car exhaust.
Now that we've put things in perspective, let's think about this... there is no direct tie between CO2 and "global warming". It's all inferred. Propaganda. And the number one rule of propaganda is repeat something so many times, it's accepted as truth.

[Lunariss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

You do realize the largest source of carbon emissions are every man and animal exhaling pure CO2? This dwarfs any industrial or combustion engine output. A single volcanic eruption puts out more carbon than a years worth of car exhaust.
Now that we've put things in perspective, let's think about this... there is no direct tie between CO2 and "global warming". It's all inferred. Propaganda. And the number one rule of propaganda is repeat something so many times, it's accepted as truth.

I don't think scientists around the globe have a political agenda, but whatever...The way you quoted global warming suggests that you don't think it exists. If that's the case, then...wow. Last time I checked, volcanic eruptions aren't that common. And, yes, humans and animals emit more CO2 than cars or factories. However, any CO2 emitted does add to the greenhouse effect. It doesn't matter if it comes from man, animals, or combustion; it all goes to the same place. Didn't anyone pay attention in science? The greenhouse effect is supposed to be, in all actuality, a good thing. It's our Earthly blanket, in a way. But when we add our own emissions to the delicate balance of water vapor, CO2, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone we mess with nature. Oh, and I've never seen Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth". I don't even like Al Gore. I don't think that the Earth will end up like it does in "The Day After Tomorrow". This is from my high school science class.

[CoffeeShark]

the point was that there is no correlation between warming and carbon dioxide, other than that the increase in CO2 FOLLOWS a warming period, not the other way around.

However, the consensus that CO2 is CAUSING warming continues.

I'm hard-pressed to figure this out.

No one is denying the 1 Degree temperature change. It is the causation and eventual effects that are in dispute - and should be.

When your only proof of both cause and effect come from computer models, they cannot be stated as fact. Scientific opinion and theory, yes.

There is no factual evidence of sea rise at a greater rate than previous. When there is, fine. I don't want to bet our economic future on computer modeling. NOTHING has happened. This is all conjecture on what MIGHT happen based on human-controlled computer models.

I'm all for cutting emissions, I think the world's oil supply will eventually run out, and it's a good time to explore alternatives.

As for nature, there is no "delicate balance", that's just environmental spew. Nature is always in a state of flux, and has always been. This ridiculous notion that there is some sort of balance to be achieved is pure crap. Extinctions, global climate changes, natural disasters, even magnetic pole flips have all occurred, and will occur again. There is no balance, so there is nothing to maintain. Whenever man screws with nature to maintain a balance (see: wolves, caribou, deer, prairie dogs, wolverines, venomous ducks) we always mess it up. Because there IS no balance.

When the wolves eat too many deer, the wolves die out. There is no magical proportion of deer-to-wolf that we need to find. It's simple nature. We, in our infinite wisdom, think there is.

And in our arrogance, we believe we can regulate the Earth's temperature. We can prevent the next ice age, or warming.

The political nature of it bothers me the most. They've changed from "global warming" to "climate change" to avoid the issues with cold areas. They attribute every natural event to climate change, from hurricanes (disproved) to typhoons to local weather in NYC. Everything applies, and if it doesn't work for them, they write it off as an anomaly.

bah.

[DennyCrane]

There's not much I can add to that... Coffee's well-read on this.
All I can contribute is, Lunariss, volcanic activity IS common. Check it out yourself. There are eruptions all the time across the globe.
Some scientists DO indeed have a political agenda. This is easily proved when someone speaks up against "global warming as caused by man" (better?) and wee see the reaction- squash down contrary viewpoints and attack their credentuals and private lives. The Weather Channel has an agenda. It is in the open. They will fire anyone who cites evidence that the Al Gore scare tactics are incorrect.
And this bears repeating. Coffee mentioned how nature self-regulates. Just as I said animals exhale CO2, plants thrives on CO2 and emit O2. When there's excess CO2, plants grow at a rapis rate. The result is lower CO2 and more O2.
See?

[CoffeeShark]

Even liberals should visit FoxNews today:

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//check out dude in photo #9 rofl