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Thread: Israel And Hamas Square Off Again In Gaza

  1. #11
    Magnificent Bastard Pale.Rider's Avatar
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    Well Denny you know I am anything but leftist. My opinion of the continueing conflict is not limited to events that have happend in the last 100 years. I think it's onesided to view the region that way, which most Westerners do and that is why every attenpt by a Westerner to bring any sort of lasting peace to the area has failed.

    What's amazing to me is that the US has picked a side at all. Remember to avoid entangleing alliances... where have I heard that?

  2. #12
    Magnificent Bastard Pale.Rider's Avatar
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    And besides, the Jews already have a homeland - it's called New York State.

  3. #13
    m00tini! wootini's Avatar
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    Why can't we just move Israel to Montana or something?

  4. #14
    WHERE IS GOD DennyCrane's Avatar
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    Just from a historical perspective, the Jews have been around a LOT longer than islam has.

    And islam has sworn the destruction of the Jews, but not the other way around.
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  5. #15
    Magnificent Bastard Pale.Rider's Avatar
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    Of course the conflict over that land pre-dates Islam, which has only been around since 600AD or so - that's the entire point which is why the argument that Israel is "only defending itself" against insane Muslims doesn't fly. If they simply wanted a "homeland" there are other, safer and more accomidating places for them to settle - but the plain facts are, they want the land, that specific land, which they have been waring over for thousands of years.

    The Hebrews have been fighting over that land much, much longer that Islam has existed but againt basically the same people, Arabs, Persians, Turks and Egyptions. So those people got a new religion around 1,500 years ago, the dispute over the land hasn't changed. One group controls it for a while until the other group drives them out and vice versa. Periodically a non-regional power takes over for a time.

    The Hebrews reconquered the land in 1948 and have had it since then. During that time the people they conquered it from have been trying to take it back. It goes on and on and on. It will keep going on and on and on long after we are dead.

    Once again - looking at this conflict and forming conclusions based on the events of the last 100 years is a flawed meathod. The US needs to stay out of it, or who knows, maybe in 2,000 years WE will still be fighting over it - it being a dust bowl.

  6. #16
    Registered User No-Fear's Avatar
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    This is something they need to settle face to face and not with war. Pale made a good point they need to settle this now or they will still be fighting over this many years down the road .

  7. #17
    Magnificent Bastard Pale.Rider's Avatar
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    Thousand+ year old conflicts like this are why we need to dump every last penny we have into space travel and colonization so the rational and sane people can get the hell off this rock and leave all the fucking whackos behind to slaughter each other.

  8. #18
    living the clean life Tulkas's Avatar
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    Pale, this might be the first time I think you are wrong in some aspect. I agree with Denny about Hamas and Muslims not particularly caring for the most part who they attack, and the rest of the Arab world and muslims always celebrate when any Israeli or people from other countries (i.e. United Kingdom, Spain, America, etc.) get killed, they always cheer in the streets. This of course is ages old. And lets not neglect to mention that Hamas and other terrorist organizations setup in civilian areas or bring civilians around, so when they are attacked, civilians die. You aren't a civilian if you protect or hide terrorist, that makes you a terrorist.

    Also from the AP:
    Militants often operate against Israel from civilian areas. Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons.

    The offensive began eight days after a six-month truce between Israel and the militants expired. The Israeli army says Palestinian militants have fired some 300 rockets and mortars at Israeli targets over the past week, and 10 times that number over the past year.
    Hamas is a terrorist organization! DON'T FORGET THAT! And their leaders in Palestine are probably the only ones to take heed to the warnings and hide.

    There was a plan, called the UN Partition Plan, that was supposed to establish two states (one Arab and one Jewish), where Jerusalem would be an international city administered by the UN. While the Jewish Community in general accepted this plan, the Arab League and other Arab authorities rejected it. So when the British had completely left the land, Israel declared itself a nation according to the partition plan and which countries such as the United States and even Stalin and the Russians! Since the Arab community had rejected the plan, the major Arab surrounding countries attacked the new state called Israel.

    Now, what kills me, is that the surrounding nations told those Arabs living in that area to leave their homes; promising new lands and such after they attacked and destroyed the Israeli's and other people living there. Well, unfortunately for those people, they lost to the small new nation, and those Arabs were left homeless. Furthermore, Israel later developed that desert land using innovative methods such as the modern drip irrigation system (which they had come up with).

    As you should already know, most media is bias. You have to go to the land to observe for yourself. I have been there three times now. There is a big difference between Arabs and Muslims. Muslims can't be reasoned with (IMHO), and are the ones causing chaos around the globe currently. If you care to notice though, even from such biased sources as Central Nazi News (CNN), you will read that Israel targeted Hamas, security areas, or of the sort...while Hamas and other crazy militant terrorist groups attack and target a city, with no particular "target" in mind.

    And Craig, why does the small nation of Israel that is recognized around the world as a country have to move around the globe to re-establish itself? If these surrounding Arab nations cared so much, why don't they offer a small parcel of land so the Arabs in Israel would have a place to call home. Why can't they even live side-by-side. Its always these other outside nations (again, IMHO), that are disrupting negotiations and talks. They are always pushing or instigating, and that even includes the US.

    The other problem, is that it doesn't ever matter how much land Israel gives, it is never enough. Most of the Muslim world will never be satisfied until those who disagree with them are destroyed and killed. IT DOES NOT say anywhere in the Koran/Qur'an to call for the destruction of Jews. Read this: The Koran On Jews' Right To Land or The Qur'an and the Land of Israel

    I don't really want to get into this, but this is MY view. There are a lot more going on here than people know about, or that people can even fathom about. I know I can't, and I've been reading about this stuff for a long time.

    Edit: And maybe take a look at this: What Every American Should Know About the Middle East | dmiessler.com real quick and pay extra attention to point # 7.
    Last edited by Tulkas; 12-28-2008 at 04:00 AM.

  9. #19
    WHERE IS GOD DennyCrane's Avatar
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    And the Jews had other homelands... Egypt... Germany... it didn't end well.
    Israel didn't "reconquer" the land in 1948, it was established for them in 1947 by the UN. It was defended by Israel since.
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  10. #20
    may the Bruce be with you CoffeeShark's Avatar
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    If we sent every nation to their own planet, they would eventually still fight amongst themselves.

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